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Oct. 27, 2023
The Accidental Firefighter - The Power Of Persistance
Have you ever wondered what it takes to climb the ranks of the fire service? Travis a deputy fire marshal of new construction, sits down to spill the details of his fascinating journey to relevance and acceptance. From navigating the complex waters of an economic downturn to reinventing his professional path, Travis’ story of perseverance and unwavering optimism is sure to motivate.
In our in-depth conversation, Travis highlights the critical importance of relationship-building and a thorough understanding of the fire service culture. Drawing from his personal experience, he discusses how he found acceptance and earned his place in this demanding field. Plus, he sheds light on the role of continuous learning and mentorship in accelerating career advancement,
But that's not all - Travis also touches upon the significant, yet often overlooked, issue of cancer in the fire service. He opens up about his collaboration with cancer organizations and the resources available to reduce exposure. Travis’ commitment to initiating crucial conversations around this topic and his efforts to bring about positive changes are slowly making a difference. Tune in for a conversation that's sure to motivate, educate, and leave you with a deep respect for the tireless individuals serving in our fire departments.
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Transcript
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Today on All Clear the accidental firefighter how perseverance and attitude plays into our success in the fire service.
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You are listening to All Clear Firefighter Health and Wellness Podcast.
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I'm Travis Eric.
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How you doing my man?
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I think we're doing okay.
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We've had some technical difficulties that are been a little frustrating, but on both ends.
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But I think we are.
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We are both here.
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It is a new day and that is a good thing.
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And just for a little bit of behind the curtain.
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Eric's laptop decided to go belly up last week and we've been trying to get him converted to Mac.
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But it'll be okay, We'll get there.
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We'll get there.
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So, Eric, what you got going on.
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Well, there's a lot going on, but today I'd like to just ask you some questions.
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Today, Do a little interview with you talking about your story, talk about some persistence.
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How can it be affected by our attitude?
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And if you're, okay with that.
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Absolutely, my story is very boring.
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But if one thing I'm persistent I don't know if it's because I'm hardheaded or I'm just gifted with persistence, but it does go a long way into how I got to where I am now.
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So yeah, fire away.
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If you've got questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
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Cool man.
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So first question you know, tell us what you're doing now with the Concord fire department.
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What is your job?
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Well, professionally, I am deputy fire marshal of new construction that's a fancy way of saying that.
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I work on the unsexy side of firefighting right now.
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I review plans, do fire inspections, but at the same time I am also an investigator and we investigate fires.
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So I mean it's a widespread, but I work as an investigator, plan reviewer, you know, handling a lot of communications with other departments, just trying to keep trying to keep a fast growing city moving ahead.
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So it's a little different, but that's what I do professionally.
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Well, that's pretty cool.
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Has this been something you've always wanted to do?
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No, I didn't know.
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I wanted to do it.
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I didn't figure that out until you know, if you tell me, when I was in high school, they always had the counselors going around hey, what are you going to do?
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Are you going to college?
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What are you doing?
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And I never went to college.
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I had a totally different plan, but my plan kind of fell apart somewhere about two or three years after graduation not in a bad way, but everything that I thought would work out for me wound up not, and I wound up volunteering, working as a minister full time for about nine years, which I've learned a lot doing that.
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But at the same time, you know, I've worked a lot of different things.
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I've been my own business owner for a while, so I did a lot of things like that and I wound up getting a contract at social services here in our county working as an interpreter, and through that I had the chance to meet some really cool people at the city of Concord which I did not know.
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The ones I was talking with also were directly linked to the emergency communications department.
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Over time, people that I met early in my career, before I was even in the fire service, wound up being people that I'm working with and have been instrumental in helping me be successful.
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Now, if that makes any sense, oh yeah, so kind of a broad spectrum of a background, yeah, and a weird path getting into the field that you're in right now.
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So what was your motivation to get into your profession that you're currently doing it?
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was survival.
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I know that sounds really weird, but if you're an old guy like me and I'm not calling you old Eric, but I know you remember it too I'm older than you.
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Well yeah, that's true.
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But back in 0708, back when the economy took a turn and basically everything flushed out, I was working in planning and zoning.
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Our director came by and said you have to justify your existence.
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If you can't justify why you're here, you may not have a job.
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So at that time I was working as a permit technician in the planning and zoning department and I had made friends with the fire marshals department.
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They were right across the hall and I got to know a couple of those guys and they were really awesome and I had some interest in what they were doing.
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And whenever things got really bad economically, as it did across the country, I had to reinvent myself and I found I had an interest, a passion and an ability to be able to understand the codes and how the fire service works.
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And I sat down with Chief Mark Brown, who was fire marshal at the time, dear friend of mine and he kind of helped me figure out a career path, for what I had to do to be able to make the jump from basically planning and zoning into the world of fire.
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And bear in mind I had never ridden a truck, didn't know anything, no, rookie school, no, nothing.
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And he's like, okay, here's the deal, you're going to work part-time, you're going to have to do your training, you're going to have to do your.
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You know, get your EMT, get your firefighter one and two hazmat.
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And when I looked at this long list of certifications that I had to have to be minimally qualified to come in, even into the fire marshals office, it was very daunting and I had to get really creative really quick.
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And bear in mind I was 30, well, 30-ish years old and I was old and decrepit at that point, not in great physical shape, and yeah, that's where my journey began and it was that's where the persistence had to kick in and I did a lot of stuff.
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Oh, and my wife was pregnant too.
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I forgot to mention that I was having a child at the same time.
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So a lot of stuff really stacked up really fast.
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But the guys in the fire prevention division helped me realize what I needed to do and they motivated me to keep going.
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That's awesome.
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Yeah, that's a lot of stuff on the plate right there to bring in and it can look very intimidating.
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You know you need this, you need this, you need this, you need this.
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Like you were saying, you know survival.
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You know what have I got to do to support my family.
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You know put food on the table.
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You know things like that picking a career, a new career field, and having that ambition and that drive and that motivation to keep you going, especially with something that you know.
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Like you said, you really didn't.
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You chose this profession out of pure survival, as where a lot of people in the fire service that are riding the rigs and stuff, it's been a passion for a long time, that it's something they've always wanted to do and now they finally have the opportunity to do it.
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How did the people around you support you to keep you motivated, keep that positive attitude that, yes, I can achieve these goals.
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That seem very overwhelming for me right now.
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Well, at the time I was kind of living in two worlds.
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I was still working in planning part-time and I was working for the fire department as an inspector part-time.
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And that was really hard because the planning world didn't understand what I was trying to do.
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They thought, oh, you're just going to take in classes.
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Well, no, it's not just taking classes, it's nights and weekends and picking up classes through the community college system and things like that.
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But what really helped me was at the time Chief Brown, who's retired.
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Now he's with Roe and Cabarrus Community College, works for Michael Cavanus, who we talked to a while back, yeah, and Chief Adam Ryerson, who is the fire marshal now.
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They both said, okay, we'll figure this out.
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And they helped me understand that it can be overwhelming, but let's get a plan together.
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And the plan was basically too pronged and my passion for the job developed very quickly.
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And that's one thing that's important to know If you don't have passion for this line of work, you will not do it, whether it be on the truck or investigation, whatever the case is, if you don't have passion, you won't stick with it.
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And I identified that there was an academic component, which was the associate degree program, and then there was also the certification component, which is firefighter one and two, the hazmat, the different things like that.
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Yeah, so so what I had to do was is you know, I'd never went to college and I had a supervisor one time tell me that I was worthless without, not in the fire service, but I was basically worthless without a degree which, how?
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How'd that make you feel?
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That was pretty crushing, that was pretty crushing.
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Now, bear in mind I'm married and you know I've had a.
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I've always been able to care for myself and it's not.
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I've never wanted for anything, I've never been a rich, rich man.
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But the minute that was told to me, literally within what I guess would have been the community college quarter at the time, I was enrolled in the fire program at Coastal Carolina Community College.
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Shout out to Ed Duffield, out there, great guy, and right down the road from my house, that's it.
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And there were literally only, I think, three programs at the time that offered it remotely, which is what I had to do.
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I couldn't quit my job to go to class.
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So I started doing the classes and I would call Chief Brown.
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It's like, all right, explain to me what flash over is explained, and I know that seems very simplistic.
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And now you know what?
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1513, 1415 years later, I got it.
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I understand every bit of that now, but when I came into it it's like, what the heck am I getting into?
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Yeah, but after, after I started building the stuff with the academic side and then by me participating through the rookie schools at Concord and the county and through the community college system, as I started piecing everything together over a couple of years the picture became complete and then I understood what I needed to do professionally.
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But at the same time I'm learning how to do fire inspections, what it means to have a job that has family connections as opposed to something that's not having family connections.
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You know the fire service, the guys I work with in fire prevention.
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I spend as much time with them sometimes as I do my own, my own family.
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And coming from any other sector of the world, I assume because I've never been in the military, I've never been a police officer.
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I'm sure they have a very similar thing.
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But when you come into the world of first responders you're starting to see a different culture and I had to learn to fit into that culture when I wasn't necessarily accepted immediately.
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And it's still a challenge.
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After this day, I still have to.
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I feel like I have to prove myself that, yeah, no, I know I don't need to know how to vent a roof, but I need to be able to, you know, hold my own as far as in conversations, understand what everyone goes through.
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And I'm still learning that process.
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But you know, it's something that's ongoing.
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I'll never forget I was at, I was at our main station one day and this was years ago and I was in the bathroom, I was washing my hands and there was this old captain in there combing his hair.
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He said yeah, who are you?
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Why are you here?
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You know, after this question, now I've come to be great friends with him.
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He's retired now, but you know, it was one of those things where that it kind of hit me at that moment I'm going to have to let people know who I am, and so I've.
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I still try to do that Now that I've been here long enough.
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I've got to know a lot of people through investigations and classes and working with them and things like that.
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And, and you know, now people actually do come and ask questions and, hey, what are they building over here?
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What does the fire code say about so and so?
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So you know, over time the support from the guys immediately there in fire prevention helped me stay motivated to go the course.
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And you know, even I have friends that were in the Marine Corps as drill sergeants that came and yelled at me to get me in physical shape so that I could pass our jar pad and different things like that.
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So a lot went into that but it was because of the support of, you know, the leadership in fire prevention and also even our chiefs you know Chief Holloway, chief Allen and even Jake Williams, now our chief.
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They are all very supportive of our progress and and on a personal level I felt that.
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So you have to stay motivated but you also have to have a plan and you have to stay plugged in.
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Yeah, absolutely, man.
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You, you brushed on the, we brushed across the um not having a degree and we, when we talked to Michael Kavanis, we talked about higher education and we talked about continuing education, certification, stuff like that.
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I think that needs to be a separate podcast that we do by itself, talking about higher education, where it fits into the, the career plan, the career ladder advancement and stuff like that.
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So I could talk on that for a very long time.
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So I'm I'm glad that you mentioned it.
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I wrote a note down that we need to.
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We need to revisit that at some point, I believe.
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But you also mentioned the, the fitting in you know where, where you fit in and how you make yourself be able to, to maybe feel accepted around the firehouse with your profession, that you don't ride a fire truck You've never ridden a fire truck and do I really belong with these guys?
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Yes, you do.
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Your, your job is vital, you know, not just to the community safety, but for for our safety as well and being able to build that bond of.
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You mentioned the guys asking questions about hey, you know, what are they building over there?
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What, what is this place going to be?
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Whatever else, that's a perfect in.
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You know where we can build those relationships and we can build those bonds of hey guys.
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I just got some plans, you know, that came across my desk and this is going to be in your first.
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Do you want to?
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You want to go take a look at these plans with me?
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You want to go do a walkthrough of the building?
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You know whatever else?
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Or if you're out doing fire inspections and you notice something that might be vitally important to the guys that are responding to that particular occupancy of hey.
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This is what I saw today.
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You and I have had some sidebar discussions before About that.
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Those very topics of you know feeling accepted, feeling you know that you fit in around the firehouses and stuff.
00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:08.267
And I saw it firsthand.
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Our group was invited up there to to assist you guys after after that incident and we're very thankful for that opportunity and I know we had had that conversation beforehand and I saw that night that those guys really appreciate what you do.
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They consider you part of the fire family.
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Even though you you're not on the suppression side, not on the operational side of things, you do have an integral part and they do value and appreciate you as as not just what you do as a profession, but you as a, as an individual.
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Well, you know, and what you're talking about, that was one of the the hot, the one of the strongest feelings I've ever had in my career that my brothers in the fire service were rallying around me because I that was.
00:16:01.087 --> 00:16:05.881
That was a rough experience for me personally and I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point later on.
00:16:05.881 --> 00:16:12.885
But you know, going up into that and and going back to what you were saying, there's a program that we have here in Concord.
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It's journey through administration.
00:16:13.610 --> 00:16:30.379
So basically, whenever anyone's getting ready to promote to captain, or they are a captain, they have to spend time with Lizzie, they have to spend time with logistics, fire prevention, you know they, they spend time with the different, I guess, the non suppression side of the house to understand what we do.
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And I I have the privilege of, you know, doing the the plan review side with a lot of captains and some of them were like huh, what, what, what do you do?
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And then you're like come on, let's go out in the field.
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And I remember I took we have a production facility here in Concord and you know I've been working with that project since it started and I took one of the captains over there.
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It was in their first due area and I said let's go through.
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Have you ever been here?
00:16:58.100 --> 00:16:58.299
No.
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And we went through and when they saw the magnitude of what was happening literally a quarter mile from their station, they're like, oh, wow, yeah.
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And and then they're like this is here.
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I was like, yeah, let, let let's go talk to, let's go talk to the plant manager.
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And you know we went and got a chance to to really kind of see behind the scenes how it worked.
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And and as soon as they saw that they're like, you see this stuff, yeah, no, this is what I see every day.
00:17:24.358 --> 00:17:32.450
And and they've called me multiple times I've had lots of captains after they've gone into field with with me and my staff over in you know, new construction.
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They're like, okay, I need to know about this.
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What can you tell me about this project, that project, and it's really, you know there's been a big link over with that, but it's just earning trust, right, that's, that's the whole thing.
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If you don't trust me, then you know you're not going to listen to what I say and I take my reputation very seriously in the fire service.
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I want people to trust me, and that's anybody.
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If you're trying to get into this career, you got to earn trust.
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You got to.
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You know you you've got to ask questions.
00:18:04.201 --> 00:18:06.037
Don't be afraid to.
00:18:06.037 --> 00:18:11.829
Don't be afraid to let people know that you don't know everything or, heck, let them know you don't know anything.
00:18:11.829 --> 00:18:14.008
Hey, chief, what's a flash over?
00:18:14.008 --> 00:18:15.037
Right, that's?
00:18:15.037 --> 00:18:16.388
That's a very simple question.
00:18:17.633 --> 00:18:23.195
But years ago I didn't know, and it's okay to not know something, and you know.
00:18:23.195 --> 00:18:46.450
A lot of times, and I've seen this when I was doing my training, it was weird because I had some understanding, but I was going into, you know some of the you know the basic classes, like you know building construction, where I haven't had I had an advanced understanding of building construction and other people in the class who were rookies with the county did not, but they tried to act like they know everything.
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And if you don't know it, you don't know it.
00:18:48.626 --> 00:18:52.759
It's okay to ask questions and that's something that a lot of people don't.
00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:53.989
They want to walk in.
00:18:53.989 --> 00:18:55.769
Hey, I know how to do this, I'm the man.
00:18:55.769 --> 00:18:59.060
Well, at some point you're not the man.
00:18:59.711 --> 00:19:04.215
You have to learn how to be the man, and that's, that's the whole thing you know.
00:19:04.215 --> 00:19:14.266
Build your reputation, and part of the way you do that is by showing your your weakness and your failure at times of understanding stuff, because we all have to learn how to do what we do.
00:19:14.287 --> 00:19:37.384
Yeah, you know that vulnerability of you know it is showing vulnerability to admit that you don't know the answer to something or you know you don't necessarily know a specific process of how it's going to work and if you're not being honest with other people you're not going to be able to build that that trust, that confidence in people.
00:19:37.384 --> 00:19:39.369
People are not going to put that trust in you.
00:19:39.369 --> 00:19:45.410
So the vulnerability aspect of it yeah, absolutely hey, I don't necessarily know.
00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:55.528
One thing really popped into my head when you were mentioning the, the facility that you brought that captain to, that he had no idea that was happening in his, in his first two area.
00:19:57.153 --> 00:20:02.690
A lot of people might think what your job is is is easy.
00:20:02.690 --> 00:20:13.079
It's not as hard as what we do on the, on the fire trucks or whatever else, and we're not going to try to compare apples to apples or apples to oranges on who is better or whatever else.
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:18.134
But what you do makes our job easier.
00:20:18.134 --> 00:20:23.645
You know we, we we think about.
00:20:23.645 --> 00:20:31.378
You know, just like you know standpipes, sprinklers, where FDC connections are, where hydrant locations are going to be.
00:20:31.378 --> 00:20:41.243
You know, I'm sure you have a, you have a say in plan reviews and things like that on this is what we need and you make sure that that's happening.
00:20:41.243 --> 00:20:44.442
And when we go to a fire we just expect that stuff to be there.
00:20:44.442 --> 00:20:51.039
We don't see the behind the scenes before that fire happens or before that building was even built.
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:56.445
To make sure that we are set up for success when we roll up in that buildings on fire.
00:20:57.615 --> 00:21:05.022
Well, part part of what I do and this is one of the things I preach, and this was taught to me earlier on.
00:21:05.022 --> 00:21:18.182
When I look at a set of plans, whenever I do an inspection, my number one concern isn't public safety I know that sounds really weird it's the safety of firefighters, the safety of the ones that are going to be responding.
00:21:18.182 --> 00:21:21.422
My job is to give as many options as I can.
00:21:21.422 --> 00:21:22.951
Where can you put the truck?
00:21:22.951 --> 00:21:24.278
Where can I pull lines from?
00:21:24.278 --> 00:21:25.646
How close are the hydrants?
00:21:26.088 --> 00:21:35.528
The code dictates a lot of that, but I also have to take into consideration our capabilities and what is the safest approach to my knowledge?
00:21:35.528 --> 00:21:49.625
You know, for, for the guys going in, and you know absolutely, public safety is very important, but at the same time, if I'm not protecting the guys on our on the suppression side that go in, I'm not doing my job.
00:21:49.625 --> 00:21:51.596
And that is the most important thing.
00:21:51.596 --> 00:22:06.262
And and once you help people understand hey, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to help you have all the options you can when you have to go fight that fire, which would never happens, you know, hopefully, hopefully, you'll have another, another tactic you can use that you weren't planning before.
00:22:06.262 --> 00:22:06.905
Right.
00:22:08.936 --> 00:22:10.020
That's pretty cool man.
00:22:10.020 --> 00:22:15.085
Yeah, Behind the scenes stuff that you do, A lot of people don't.
00:22:15.085 --> 00:22:16.550
They don't understand it.
00:22:16.550 --> 00:22:18.299
I saw that firsthand.
00:22:18.441 --> 00:22:21.657
you know it'll be something that I'll learn from.
00:22:21.657 --> 00:22:25.077
You know how to deal with the stress that comes out of that.
00:22:25.077 --> 00:22:30.263
Or you know I've had a fatality fires before too that I've dealt with, and you know you.
00:22:30.263 --> 00:22:44.208
You learn to carry this with you, but you have to learn to not let it consume you, and that's one of the things that nobody's ever prepared for when they come into this profession.
00:22:44.208 --> 00:22:53.659
And you know it's one thing when you're doing planning and you're issuing permits for you know Pergolas and somebody's backyard that that's one thing.
00:22:53.659 --> 00:23:05.025
But when you start dealing with lives, worrying about the lives of those you work with, trying to make sure your decisions impact them in a positive way, it's a whole different thing.
00:23:05.025 --> 00:23:11.861
And when you see people that they're worst constantly and you have to deal with that, it's a lot to carry Absolutely.
00:23:11.861 --> 00:23:31.740
And and you know if, if I can give any advice to anybody that's maybe listening to this podcast and thinking about coming into the fire service even if your dad was a firefighter, or your brother or your sister, whatever the case is, and you've had it in your family that that's awesome.
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:38.681
But when you come into this and you go to rookie school or you start any type of learning with the fire department.
00:23:38.760 --> 00:23:41.378
The two things you need to take care of number one, your body.
00:23:41.378 --> 00:23:49.093
Make sure you're physically fit, because you can't make that up whenever you get into that position.
00:23:49.093 --> 00:23:53.507
You need to be healthy, you need to be fit before you start training.
00:23:53.507 --> 00:23:55.503
And number two is your mind.
00:23:55.503 --> 00:23:57.678
You have to take care of your mind.
00:23:57.678 --> 00:24:02.310
You have to make sure that it's sharp, because if your brain don't work, your body ain't gonna work.
00:24:02.310 --> 00:24:06.656
You're not gonna be able to learn about standpipes and you know it all kind of falls.
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Apart from there and everything you put together, you can make up learning stuff.
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