The player is loading ...
Jan. 5, 2024
Resilience Renewed - Stepping Back In with guest David Nathanson
When the going gets tough, the tough get resilient. Join us as we dove deep into resilience, trauma and recovery with the extraordinary David Nathanson, Executive Director of the Eagle Oak Retreat Foundation. David, a champion in aiding first responders and veterans bounce back from trauma, introduced us to the Warrior Path program - a seven-day intensive training designed to help individuals handle stress with poise. We discussed the crucial role a supportive community plays in the journey of rehabilitation and the importance of trusting the process, key elements in successfully reintegrating into everyday life after treatment.
Want to know how to draw strength from your hardships? Listen closely as we explore resilience and self-care within the world of first responders and military. Let our own experiences and strategies inspire you. We highlight the power of a positive attitude, the art of reflecting and gratitude, and the merits of leaving your comfort zone. Understand that this is a journey of overcoming trauma and making progress through recovery.
What happens if trauma is left unaddressed? This episode also sheds light on the cumulative effects of trauma and the need for continuous aftercare in addiction recovery. We underscore the importance of therapy and counseling, and share resources like Boulder Crest's Warrior PATHH program. Listen to us share our personal experiences and insights on how to support those who have been exposed to trauma.
About David:
David “Nate” Nathanson was born, raised, and educated in New Jersey. An avid cyclist, outdoorsman, lifelong learner, lover of music, Harley enthusiast, Jeep owner, and Scuba Divemaster, David served as both an enlisted Marine and an officer of Marines. He has commanded at every level from platoon to regiment, including a combat logistics battalion during Operation IRAQI FREEDOM. Additionally, he participated in many campaigns, operations, and humanitarian assistance operations during his more than 30-year career. He received his Bachelor's Degree from Rutgers University, two Master's Degrees from the Marine Corps University, and one from the Naval War College. He lives in Texas with his amazing wife Kathy, his pit bulls Leonidas and Cleopatra, and his cats Fergus and Finn. He has four children and four grand children who call him “Papa.”
Learn more about David and Eagle Oak Retreat at
eagleoakretreat.org
I appreciate you taking out time to listen. We can only do this with your support. Please subscribe, leave us a like and good review. Also if you are able a small donation will go a long way on keeping quality content and bad dad jokes coming to you. Visit allclearpodcast.com to learn more.
Your one stop shop for graphic design, screen printing, embroidery and more. Proud sponsor of the All Clear Podcast.
Use the code All Clear to get 10% off your first order.
studioprintshop.com
Thanks for listening to All Clear!
You can contact us with questions, suggestions or just to say hi at our website
allclearpodcast.com
Also Visit Our Sponsors - Studio Print Shop at
studioprintshop.com
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:02.463 --> 00:00:13.028
This week on All Clear resilience, renewed stepping back in with guest David Nathanson, executive director of the Eagle Oak Retreat Foundation.
00:00:13.028 --> 00:00:18.972
I'm Travis, got Eric over there with us and we have a special guest today.
00:00:18.972 --> 00:00:19.984
Oh, by the way, hello Eric.
00:00:19.984 --> 00:00:26.775
Hey, thanks, We'll take that as a hello, yeah.
00:00:27.158 --> 00:00:27.500
Thanks for coming.
00:00:27.500 --> 00:00:28.106
We've got David.
00:00:28.227 --> 00:00:29.500
Nathanson with us today.
00:00:29.500 --> 00:00:30.905
Yeah, pretty excited about that.
00:00:30.905 --> 00:00:43.310
So David Nathanson is a specialist in helping first responders vets to recover their I guess their sense of normalcy after traumatic experiences and such.
00:00:43.310 --> 00:00:45.987
And, david, thank you for being with us tonight.
00:00:45.987 --> 00:00:53.165
And what I'm going to do is let you introduce yourself, tell us about your program and tell us about you and how you got to where you're at.
00:00:54.609 --> 00:00:55.231
Great Thank you.
00:00:55.231 --> 00:00:59.009
Appreciate the opportunity to speak with you both tonight and anybody out there listening.
00:00:59.009 --> 00:01:02.960
So I'm the executive director for Eagle Oak Retreat Foundation.
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:25.811
It is a nonprofit located in Italy, texas, and, as you said, we specialize in helping first responders and veterans who have experienced trauma, through their service to the country or the community, recover from that trauma, ask them to not accept a diminished version of himself and help them transcend that trauma into a life, moving them into a category of post traumatic growth.
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.248
We offer a program, our flagship program, called Warrior Path.
00:01:29.248 --> 00:01:32.629
Path is progressive alternative training for helping heroes.
00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.028
It is a peer led program.
00:01:35.028 --> 00:01:43.066
It's seven days of intensive training on the ranch and then 83 more days extended training facilitated via Zoom calls.
00:01:43.066 --> 00:01:51.629
We have a marvelous app that was facilitated for us by Boeing, and then we've got student guides that allows us to continue that dialogue and that conversation.
00:01:51.629 --> 00:02:01.563
And the one thing I'll stress right off the bat is is two things you don't offer tools, because our perspective is no one is broken and you only go to a tool when someone is broken.
00:02:01.563 --> 00:02:16.889
But what we do offer is training, and that training helps the individuals to respond instead of react to any stressors or any retraum, and what we encourage them to understand is there is absolutely nothing wrong with them.
00:02:16.889 --> 00:02:20.710
They are simply a reflection of their experiences in their training.
00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:25.650
We spend a lot of time helping them reconcile those two and get back to a life of normalcy.
00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:46.768
That sounds like you are doing very similar work to what I think Eric here is doing, and I know that we really push getting ahead of the ball, being proactive instead of reactive, like the fire services in particular, it's all about let's fight to fire as opposed to prevent the fire.
00:02:46.768 --> 00:02:52.302
A lot of times it's good to hear that you are having success with that program, but I think what we're.
00:02:52.302 --> 00:02:54.150
I'm going to start off with the first question.
00:02:54.150 --> 00:03:00.068
I'm sure Eric is going to follow up with many more because he's much sharper at the mental health side of it than I am in a lot of ways.
00:03:00.068 --> 00:03:20.741
But whenever a person goes through treatment, whether it be at your program or through any of the other qualified programs around the country, there is a time when the program ends and it's time to assimilate back into regular life for lack of a better term, whether it be get back on the truck, get back in the ambulance, go back home, see the wife and kids.
00:03:20.741 --> 00:03:25.127
What needs to be done to be able to do that successfully?
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:32.211
First and foremost is you have to develop a trust in the process that you just went through.
00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:47.977
You have to continue to believe and trust that the experience that you just had, whether it was treatment, training or otherwise, is going to continue to work once you leave the setting, whether that be a clinical setting or, in our case, a peer led setting.
00:03:48.498 --> 00:03:51.007
Believing in what you just experienced, first and foremost.
00:03:51.007 --> 00:03:54.810
Secondly, you really need to identify a good support group.
00:03:54.810 --> 00:04:06.671
We call it that three to five, those folks that you can go to when life is potentially going to punch you in the face or when you're returning back to normalcy and you know you're going to experience stress.
00:04:06.671 --> 00:04:09.775
You have the confidence that you can reach out to those three and five.
00:04:09.775 --> 00:04:11.604
You're going to get support.
00:04:11.604 --> 00:04:19.348
It's going to be non-judgmental, it's going to be effective, it's going to be authentic and it's going to be from the heart.
00:04:19.348 --> 00:04:33.870
Those two conditions are, I think, very important to achieve very quickly in our program so that, as folks are returning home and we actually have modules called Bringing it Home we just remind them that it's not one and done.
00:04:33.870 --> 00:04:35.927
Our program is not catch and release.
00:04:35.927 --> 00:04:44.444
We're always there to stay connected and to help, but at the end of the day, it's about trusting the process, and trusting what you just experienced is a real thing.
00:04:46.202 --> 00:04:47.766
Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:47.766 --> 00:04:50.086
Those are huge points right there.
00:04:50.086 --> 00:04:53.810
I've got a couple things written down that I would like to touch on.
00:04:53.810 --> 00:04:58.112
You've already hit one of them of setting yourself up for success.
00:04:58.112 --> 00:05:05.283
When you decide to leave discharge time, whatever, you're going back home.
00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:10.862
I had that lived experience eight weeks away from home, trying to get my mental health issues under control.
00:05:10.862 --> 00:05:19.552
One of the biggest fears that I really had was coming home to the real world.
00:05:19.552 --> 00:05:33.903
In a program like that, you get comfortable, you feel protected, you're in a cocoon Almost, you're working on yourself and, oh my gosh, I don't really have any outside stressors really bothering me while I'm here.
00:05:33.903 --> 00:05:35.788
What's it going to be like when I go home?
00:05:35.788 --> 00:05:38.245
You mentioned the support system.
00:05:38.245 --> 00:05:48.646
I can't stress that enough and I talk about it a lot when we do other podcasts, when I go and teach classes, things like that, and it's always you have to have that support when you come home.
00:05:48.646 --> 00:05:55.430
One on the family side, one on your faith-based side and then two the work family side as well.
00:05:55.430 --> 00:05:56.973
That was a huge discussion.
00:05:56.973 --> 00:06:04.213
I taught a class today and it was the support of your work environment, your work management.
00:06:04.213 --> 00:06:07.129
Do you have the support in your work environment?
00:06:07.129 --> 00:06:09.504
Is it there, and how important that truly is.
00:06:09.504 --> 00:06:20.105
Those things are extremely important in believing you mentioned the word believe Pretty much trust the process.
00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:37.132
One of the counselors that I had been to one of the places I had been to up in Vermont we actually had Mike on with us a couple of weeks ago he says we give you the map in the compass and you're the one that's actually navigating.
00:06:37.612 --> 00:06:40.918
You have to trust the process, that what you did learn.
00:06:40.918 --> 00:06:42.000
You went there for a reason.
00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:49.355
Be honest with you, take those skills that you learned and incorporate them back into your daily life.
00:06:49.355 --> 00:07:10.288
And I'm sure that you guys Reinforce that every single day and you get to see the transformation of people from day one to the very end when they're getting ready to go home and they might not feel comfortable, they might not feel confident in what they've learned, but you're seeing it before they actually realize it most of the time.
00:07:10.288 --> 00:07:12.610
I'm sure I know that's why it was with me.
00:07:12.610 --> 00:07:20.115
But how do you reinforce that with them that, hey, things are going to be okay?
00:07:20.115 --> 00:07:26.922
You have to trust in yourself that what you learned is going to work, but the work has to continue on your end.
00:07:26.922 --> 00:07:30.334
How do you guys incorporate that into your program?
00:07:32.747 --> 00:07:35.913
It's a constant strategic drumbeat from the minute they walk through the door.
00:07:35.913 --> 00:07:40.519
We literally have written on the wall TTP, trust, the process.
00:07:40.519 --> 00:08:00.399
We reinforce it through a couple different exercises, and one of the most powerful one is what we call book ending, where we have them identify One of those persons that are going to be in their three to five and have them rehearse the conversation that they're going to engage when they get back, because invariably people have questions what it?
00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:01.040
Where were you?
00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:01.680
What did you do?
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.586
Are you okay?
00:08:03.586 --> 00:08:05.048
So on and so forth.
00:08:05.048 --> 00:08:11.156
And so we walk them through this book ending conversation where we have them rehearse it, and we have them switch roles.
00:08:11.156 --> 00:08:26.319
Right halfway through, or at a point where the guide is starting to see A little bit of a transformation, or where you ask them to realize the other side's view on the conversation, we have them switch roles, and so that's a very powerful tool for us.
00:08:26.678 --> 00:08:34.552
We rely heavily on modules that are very powerful and sometimes they are very metaphorical.
00:08:34.552 --> 00:08:44.404
We use archery as part of our training and then we do it for a couple reasons breathing, very simple technique to help stay grounded and concentric or congruent in the moment.
00:08:44.404 --> 00:08:46.889
Breathing we also use it to illustrate.
00:08:46.889 --> 00:08:48.610
We have them draw the bow and hold it.
00:08:48.610 --> 00:08:59.368
We give them no other instructions and you watch particularly bunch of type A personalities they'll start shaking as they try to hold that bow and then we'll just simply walk up to and say, why are you holding on to it?
00:08:59.368 --> 00:09:01.513
Just let it go, which is very powerful.
00:09:02.033 --> 00:09:03.537
And we use a labyrinth ceremony.
00:09:03.537 --> 00:09:15.096
We go, we walk them through two labyrinth ceremonies where we draw upon the ancient Act of going into this labyrinth a person marching off to war, where the village would greet them.
00:09:15.096 --> 00:09:21.003
They would probably get a brief from the unit commander, maybe the politicians would let them know why they were going to war and then they would go off to war.
00:09:21.003 --> 00:09:22.205
The community would celebrate them as they marched off.
00:09:22.205 --> 00:09:27.634
We bring them back through the labyrinth where they leave the tools of war in the center of it.
00:09:27.634 --> 00:09:39.111
They get an opportunity to reflect on the traumas that they experienced the loss of brothers, potentially the life that they took, the horrors that they saw, sights, smells and sounds, things that definitely make your different person.
00:09:39.111 --> 00:09:43.057
And we asked them to try to metaphorically leave it in the center of that.
00:09:43.057 --> 00:09:49.004
And then we welcome them back into the community, not as a warrior or as a protector, but as just a member of that community.
00:09:49.004 --> 00:09:53.655
So the goal is to have all of those things build some resiliency.
00:09:53.917 --> 00:09:57.365
But at the end of the day, one of the most powerful things we share with them is because of their training.
00:09:57.365 --> 00:10:08.722
They go into a situation whether it be a burning building, or whether it be a high speed chase, or whether it's an officer involved shooting, or, for guys like me, experiencing combat.
00:10:08.722 --> 00:10:35.224
We go into the situations with the light Turn fully on and what we try to teach them is that they're have in within their ability to add a dimmer switch where they can dial down their responses and their reactions to things, knowing that they could go as low as they need to stay calm, cool, collected, but confident that when the situation calls for it, they will be able to kick in the adrenaline, suppress that fight or flight and perform the way their, their peers expect them to.
00:10:35.224 --> 00:10:35.565
That's awesome.
00:10:37.706 --> 00:10:43.395
You brought up a couple things there that I'd like to touch on articulating the process pretty much.
00:10:43.395 --> 00:11:14.105
If that individual can really articulate what they've been through the process of the strength of the fight, of the starting of the healing process and what they've been up to up through through that particular time frame, I can see where that could be a good evaluation tool, that if they can really put that into words of what the process has been like, it's starting to click and it's starting to make sense and more than likely they are on a good path for success when they go home.
00:11:14.105 --> 00:11:28.908
I really like that you guys do that, because not only do you get to see it but now you get to hear it, that they truly understand it and that they are set up for success when they go back the the archery.
00:11:28.908 --> 00:11:40.125
I know other places use fly fishing recreational activities that they do and they will incorporate fly fishing and there's certain therapeutic benefits to it focus based activity.
00:11:40.125 --> 00:11:45.445
You know you have to be very mindful what you're doing to make sure it works correctly and then and everything else.
00:11:46.326 --> 00:12:37.235
But when you mentioned the the archery in the arrow, the first thought that went through my head was it For an arrow to make forward progress, it has to be pulled backwards first and the way that relates to the military in the first responder community, that we sometimes have setbacks or we fall backwards and whenever that happens, be like an arrow and be ready to launch, be launched forward, that it's going to happen something good is going to allow you to make forward progress and in recovery, that's very important for us, that sometimes those little stumbles that we encounter or there's little adversities that might present themselves Okay, it doesn't mean that I have to have a bad day.
00:12:38.096 --> 00:12:42.445
It's just one little speed bump throughout my day we can overcome that and we're going to continue to move forward.
00:12:42.445 --> 00:12:46.934
So when you mentioned archery, that was the first thing that came to.
00:12:46.934 --> 00:12:51.615
Came into my head right there the resiliency.
00:12:51.615 --> 00:12:53.644
You've mentioned resiliency a couple of times now.
00:12:53.644 --> 00:13:06.644
Thoughts on resiliency were very good at it being reactive to situations, when it comes to our mental health of our military, our veterans, our first responders.
00:13:06.644 --> 00:13:17.644
Where do you rank resiliency in the process of trying to make sure that we're being more forward thinking, more proactive, instead of being reactive?
00:13:23.135 --> 00:13:25.780
It's a concept I first heard as I was preparing for my first deployment into Iraq.
00:13:25.780 --> 00:13:36.044
Our commanding general talked to us about our resiliency over and over again, and maybe I was too young or maybe I was inexperienced and it didn't quite quite click.
00:13:36.044 --> 00:13:52.190
But if you fast forward a couple of years, where you know now I was getting my unit ready to deploy and I was the person responsible for ensuring that my soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines were resilient, I started to study a little bit more about it.
00:13:52.190 --> 00:14:01.302
The first place I went was Grossman's book on killing, where it talks about how you, over time, desensitize yourself and prepare yourself.
00:14:01.302 --> 00:14:10.445
Resiliency is it's really important, but my theory is this and I'm certainly not an expert I only have my own resiliency to reflect upon in my own traumas.
00:14:10.445 --> 00:14:29.657
I believe that we're probably we have a predetermined or set amount of shock absorbers that start to get worn down over time and just like a pencil at an SAT test the more you sharpen it over and over again, the sharper it gets, but the smaller it gets, and when you get to the end of that pencil, there's just nothing left.
00:14:29.657 --> 00:14:38.004
Trying to help victims of trauma understand that they can simply get a new pencil and Start over is something that we stress to them.
00:14:38.004 --> 00:14:43.162
We don't say it as simply as that, but my own words, that's how I describe when I'm talking with folks.
00:14:43.162 --> 00:14:48.455
Your trauma doesn't have to be the be all and and you're stuck there.
00:14:48.575 --> 00:14:50.582
And one of the things we use is this great video.
00:14:50.582 --> 00:14:58.802
There's this really enlightened Rabbi, rabbi Abraham twersky, and he talks about how does a lobster grow a new shell?
00:14:58.802 --> 00:15:01.934
And your first you're like who cares, right.
00:15:01.934 --> 00:15:15.292
But when you listen to him, when he describes how a lobster grows a new shell, it starts by recognizing that it's Uncomfortable in its shell because it no longer fits, and then it finds a nice safe place and it comes out of that shell and it starts to grow a new shell.
00:15:15.292 --> 00:15:17.735
They continues that process over and over again.
00:15:17.735 --> 00:15:31.534
So for me that story is extremely powerful, helping us explain to our first responders and our veterans that they have it within themselves To grow that new shell, to become Little bit tougher after that trauma.
00:15:31.534 --> 00:15:36.774
But again, mindful, the fact that repeated exposure to trauma eventually is going to wear you down.
00:15:37.155 --> 00:15:38.541
It's something we talk about.
00:15:38.541 --> 00:15:44.460
We also draw upon Victor Frankl's statement that you have two things you can control in life your attitude and your effort.
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:47.066
And we ask them to really think about those things.
00:15:47.066 --> 00:15:57.794
When they are Confronted with trauma or stressors or things that trip them up during the day, they have within their power the control, their, their attitude, in their effort.
00:15:57.794 --> 00:16:03.615
So, again, we just we start talking about those things from day one and we reinforce them over and over again.
00:16:03.615 --> 00:16:09.914
And the way we reinforce it is through, again, practices, that we have them start and become habits.
00:16:09.914 --> 00:16:27.855
If, over those 90 days and part of that on the morning aspect, is going through Reflection, going through journaling, going through expressing gratitude, finding something, a quote that inspires you to continue to build that new shell, if you will.
00:16:29.599 --> 00:16:30.260
That's awesome.
00:16:30.260 --> 00:16:41.239
The shell concept a lot of times we introvert and coming out of that shell is the hardest part.
00:16:41.239 --> 00:16:55.972
A lot of the times, being open, honest with what's truly going on with ourselves, that hey, I am struggling or I am having problems and showing that vulnerability, of coming out and opening up about it, is probably one of the hardest things that we can do.
00:16:55.972 --> 00:17:04.368
And you, comfort kills progress and we, we get so complacent in being in that environment of man.
00:17:04.368 --> 00:17:12.528
I've been here and I'm afraid to say anything and I'm used to where I am, even though it sucks.
00:17:12.528 --> 00:17:13.880
What am I going to do?
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:25.060
And Comfort will kill that forward progress and we're not going to be able to overcome anything if we don't come out of that shell and that it is not the end.
00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:30.936
All be all, that there is light at the end of that tunnel and that we can overcome it and your team.
00:17:31.157 --> 00:17:36.619
Two key points right there your attitude and how much effort you're going to put into it.
00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:39.184
You're going to get out exactly what you put in.
00:17:39.184 --> 00:17:44.305
You can't complain about poor results With minimal effort that you're putting into the process.
00:17:44.305 --> 00:17:54.009
So, having that all in attitude of I don't like the way things are and Probably just like the military as it is in the first responder community.
00:17:54.009 --> 00:17:55.535
Two things that we dislike the most.
00:17:55.535 --> 00:17:59.376
We don't like the way things are and we don't like change, yes.
00:17:59.376 --> 00:18:02.467
So what are we going to do to overcome that right?
00:18:02.467 --> 00:18:15.892
Am I going to stay miserable and unhappy the rest of my life, or am I going to try to make positive change and make things different and make things better for me, to where I have a Better quality of life than what I'm struggling through right now on my own?
00:18:15.892 --> 00:18:21.445
So I'm liking everything that you're laying down for us here, brother.
00:18:21.445 --> 00:18:22.989
This is really awesome.
00:18:24.234 --> 00:18:28.227
Self-care let's touch on self, the self-care aspect of things.
00:18:28.227 --> 00:18:44.513
Do you guys incorporate self-care, show people how to build a self-care routine, because my self-care routine that I do on a daily basis Probably different than what you do, probably different than what Travis might be doing, what some of our other listeners do, what I do might not work for you.
00:18:44.513 --> 00:18:52.108
And Do you guys show them how to do self-care and give them different techniques and options to take home with them?
00:18:53.815 --> 00:18:56.521
Absolutely, and we start right from the minute they walk in the door.
00:18:56.521 --> 00:19:19.067
One of the many Amazing things about what we do is we give them exposure to the power of nutrition and how nutrition can help you heal from trauma, and so the meals that we serve them are very thoughtful and they're coordinated with the modules that they're going through, and so we are very mindful of what we serve based on what we've trained them for the day.
00:19:19.067 --> 00:19:20.878
Nutrition is the first area.
00:19:20.878 --> 00:19:27.023
The second one is we talk about sleep, and for a lot of us, first responders and veterans, sleep is the enemy right.
00:19:27.023 --> 00:19:45.067
We have a hard time sleeping, whether it's because of the shift work, or whether it's because of the deployment 24-hour battle clock, or maybe we don't want to sleep because sleep brings bad nightmares, or maybe our sleep is disrupted for other reasons, whether it be traumatic brain injury or whether it be physical trauma.
00:19:45.067 --> 00:20:02.657
So we introduced the notion of sleep hygiene, and that's done on the very first day, and we talked them through and we give them some techniques and some things that we've discovered have been beneficial for us, and we don't shy away from the conversation that the be all end all for sleep doesn't have to be Pharmalogical.
00:20:02.657 --> 00:20:04.186
You can get there other ways.
00:20:04.186 --> 00:20:05.654
And then we give them some of those tools.
00:20:05.654 --> 00:20:21.545
So we teach them transcendental meditation and we ask them to commit to two 20-minute sessions a day of transcendental meditation a very powerful ability to get the distance Between your mind and your brain, and again it helps towards that resiliency.
00:20:21.545 --> 00:20:28.801
We talked to them about how do you get back into a routine of Exercising for purpose.
00:20:28.801 --> 00:20:45.768
Right, and it's something that you do not to yourself, and that's a very hard thing for first responders and veterans to embrace, because so much of our physical activity is geared towards Game day performance, and so it becomes this beat yourself into readiness.
00:20:45.768 --> 00:20:55.275
And so we introduced them to the idea that you can exercise as something you do, not something you do to yourself, and so we get them to give them tools light stretching.
00:20:55.275 --> 00:20:57.275
We introduce them to the practice of yoga.
00:20:57.275 --> 00:21:02.875
We introduced them to again staying active and lubricating your joints first thing in the morning.
00:21:03.277 --> 00:21:06.028
So we try to really focus in on the self-care.
00:21:06.028 --> 00:21:07.875
And then we hit the mental side of it.
00:21:07.875 --> 00:21:09.358
We talked to them about reading.
00:21:09.358 --> 00:21:18.240
We talked to them about journaling, the importance of Capturing their thoughts, feelings and emotions for the day, not just for themselves but for others to understand.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:25.967
If they're having trouble Explaining why they're having a bad day, they have a written document that they can use to help guide the conversation.
00:21:25.967 --> 00:21:33.207
Or sometimes, like I'll just hand my journal to my wife and say, hey, this is why I'm melancholy today or this is why I'm a little bit off.
00:21:33.207 --> 00:21:35.161
So we do focus on self-care.
00:21:35.161 --> 00:21:36.064
It's extremely important.
00:21:36.598 --> 00:21:38.755
I would tell you my own personal experience.
00:21:38.855 --> 00:21:49.009
It was the first thing that I jettisoned in retirement from the military and it was surprising to me because you figured, after 34 years of service, it would be a habit that would not break.
00:21:49.592 --> 00:22:15.775
And when I finally Got to the point where I had to seek help and one of the things that I'm proudest of is Now that I'm working in this space I like to share with folks that I got here because I went through this training myself I had tremendous trauma that I did not reconcile both personal and professional, and when I finally realized it was time for help, my wife just held up a mirror and said look at yourself.
00:22:15.775 --> 00:22:20.726
You, physically, are not the man that that I met and we go after.
00:22:20.726 --> 00:22:42.396
We use a wellness triangle that focuses on mind, body, spirit and finances and we talk to them about each of those domains and we help them evaluate where they're at, and then we ask them to come up with goals Measurable, quantifiable goals for each of those domains, and we just simply ask them that Today should be better than yesterday.
00:22:42.396 --> 00:22:47.557
So we give them something that is achievable and then from there we hope that they generate momentum and tempo.
00:22:48.710 --> 00:23:16.436
You know, one of the things that was that I've heard said and I really didn't take it to heart, and this was in reference to new guys that are starting at the academy or going through rookie school the two things you need to have in order before you come to class you need to make sure your body is physically fit, you need to make sure your mind is mentally fit, because you can't make those two things up, you can't out-study that, you can't cram to make those things work.
00:23:16.436 --> 00:23:30.338
So you know, even as you go further in your journey, 10, 15 years later, those two facts never change and it's good to see that you guys are promoting take care of your mind, take care of your body, and everything else will fall into place after that.
00:23:30.630 --> 00:23:32.617
It's a foundation upon which you have to build.
00:23:32.617 --> 00:23:49.468
And the reality is we talk about if those things are failing you, if your body and your mind are failing you, it is going to be difficult Not impossible, because nothing is impossible but it's going to be more difficult to grow that new shell, to sustain that resiliency.
00:23:49.468 --> 00:24:00.409
And so we are very quick to say let's start with some foundational thoughts and actions and create some habits of thought and habits of action that will sustain for the long term.
00:24:00.409 --> 00:24:00.630
Absolutely.
00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:16.630
I tell you, my nephew just graduated the police academy here in Dallas about a year, about a year, almost a year and a half ago, and as he was getting ready to go, while I'm not in law enforcement, he knew I had a very long career of being a professional athlete in the military.
00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:18.518
He said to me what should I do?
00:24:18.830 --> 00:24:24.376
And I says exactly what you said Get your mind, get your body right and I added, get your spirit right.
00:24:24.376 --> 00:24:30.099
Know why you're doing it, understand you're doing it for something larger than self.
00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:35.181
You walk into the door with your mind, your body and your spirit congruent.
00:24:35.181 --> 00:24:39.630
I says you can't help but be successful and you're going to help others be successful around you.
00:24:39.630 --> 00:24:42.239
So, absolutely, we talk about that.
00:24:42.239 --> 00:24:47.301
That's something that I have always stayed attuned to throughout my professional career.
00:24:48.271 --> 00:24:51.279
Yeah, and the other thing you have to do, too, is check your ego at the door.
00:24:51.279 --> 00:25:03.241
That seems to be the other big thing, too, and just you have to be willing to accept failure as a step of progress and just, whether it be from the recovery process or learning how to do your job.
00:25:03.241 --> 00:25:07.240
You just got to check it at the door, and that'll make even more success.
00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:09.958
There's no time stamp on the recovery process.
00:25:09.958 --> 00:25:12.998
People want to try to cheat the system.
00:25:12.998 --> 00:25:15.396
They want a simple, quick fix.
00:25:15.396 --> 00:25:16.933
Why isn't it working?
00:25:16.933 --> 00:25:18.278
Why is it taking so long?
00:25:18.278 --> 00:25:20.175
It's a process, man.
00:25:20.175 --> 00:25:21.903
It's going to take time.
00:25:21.903 --> 00:25:22.630
It's going to take effort.
00:25:22.630 --> 00:25:24.609
It's not going to be an overnight thing.
00:25:24.609 --> 00:25:29.582
You need to keep grinding at it and eventually things are going to click.
00:25:29.582 --> 00:25:37.516
You mentioned doing it for finding something bigger than yourself my recovery process.
00:25:37.556 --> 00:25:40.405
When I separated from the fire department, the loss of identity.
00:25:40.405 --> 00:25:41.630
That was a big thing for me.
00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:50.526
I'm no longer, because I had self identified as the profession for so long and now I was no longer affiliated with the fire department.
00:25:50.526 --> 00:25:51.630
What am I going to do?
00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.609
I had my reasons why to keep me going every single day.
00:25:55.609 --> 00:26:01.630
Whenever I would have a bad thought or suicidal ideation or whatever else, I always had my reason why to stay alive.
00:26:01.630 --> 00:26:17.589
But the biggest thing that motivated me in my recovery after my relapse was I had to find a purpose bigger than myself to keep me motivated every day, and that's why I started my nonprofit Pay it forward make it easier for other people.
00:26:17.589 --> 00:26:23.569
And now that's truly what I live for every day is knowing that I'm doing good things.
00:26:24.111 --> 00:26:53.523
I'm being able to sit on this podcast that other people are going to listen to, not only in the United States, but wherever they are, and hopefully we're creating a ripple for other people and we're letting them know that there is hope, and sometimes that's all that people need is to hear that there is hope and give them that one thing to look forward to Whatever people need to do to put in place to make that happen for themselves, find it.
00:26:53.523 --> 00:26:54.265
Find it.
00:26:54.265 --> 00:27:06.609
And if you can't find it on your own, do not be afraid to reach out and ask for help, because there's people just like David, there's people like Travis, there's people like me and other people that can help you with the process.
00:27:06.609 --> 00:27:08.416
You don't have to fight this alone.
00:27:08.416 --> 00:27:11.630
There is help out there and it is achievable.
00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:13.630
Keep going.
00:27:13.630 --> 00:27:19.080
That's one of my team's phrases is that we're always here for you.
00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.363
And keep going.
00:27:20.363 --> 00:27:23.589
You can't necessarily do it all by yourself.
00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:30.630
There's no need for you to have to do it all by yourself, but keep that hope alive and keep pushing forward.
00:27:31.371 --> 00:27:38.443
So, david, would you do see people coming in to your program or programs near you?
00:27:38.443 --> 00:27:51.429
What do you see as being without giving away any specific cases or anything what seemed to be the most common causations for people to need to get to the point where they're going to need some help?
00:27:51.429 --> 00:27:57.363
Is it from a cumulative effect or is it like a specific incident, or what type of traumas are you dealing with?
00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:07.125
I really think it's cumulative, and we have a module where we ask them to go back and look through their life leading up to the time where they volunteer to serve.
00:28:07.125 --> 00:28:19.325
We call it my old story, what we've discovered, and again, I think it's probably most germane to speak the example that I can speak to without violating anybody's confidence in the one that's most knowledgeable for me, is my own.
00:28:19.325 --> 00:28:23.540
I came to the Marine Corps with tremendous trauma, just didn't realize it.
00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:26.146
I think the Marine Corps recruits to it.
00:28:26.146 --> 00:28:30.589
To be quite honest, I don't think they do it from a diabolical sense or nefarious sense.
00:28:30.589 --> 00:28:35.609
I think they just draw to their ranks men and women such as myself.
00:28:35.911 --> 00:28:50.609
I think it's most cases that I see and when I listen, it's a cumulative effect of trauma, as I said earlier on, like that pencil in the SAT test, you can only sharpen it to a point so many times and break that point before the pencil no longer can serve your purposes.
00:28:50.609 --> 00:29:09.607
And so I think, if I were to characterize most of it, it's over time, it's cumulative and it's in all shapes and forms, whether it's bullying, whether it was childhood sickness, whether it was an officer involved shooting, a car accident, personal disappointment, divorce, death in the family, you name it.
00:29:09.607 --> 00:29:20.617
The trauma runs a gamut and I just think, eventually folks get to that point, that predetermined point, where they're like I just I can't, the pack is too heavy, I'm either going to collapse or I got to drop the pack.
00:29:20.617 --> 00:29:30.589
And we encourage folks, when they start to get to that point, drop the pack and have them be comfortable and confident that there's folks that they can be trusting with.
00:00:02.463 --> 00:00:13.028
00:00:13.028 --> 00:00:18.972
00:00:18.972 --> 00:00:19.984
00:00:19.984 --> 00:00:26.775
00:00:27.158 --> 00:00:27.500
00:00:27.500 --> 00:00:28.106
00:00:28.227 --> 00:00:29.500
00:00:29.500 --> 00:00:30.905
00:00:30.905 --> 00:00:43.310
00:00:43.310 --> 00:00:45.987
00:00:45.987 --> 00:00:53.165
00:00:54.609 --> 00:00:55.231
00:00:55.231 --> 00:00:59.009
00:00:59.009 --> 00:01:02.960
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:25.811
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.248
00:01:29.248 --> 00:01:32.629
00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.028
00:01:35.028 --> 00:01:43.066
00:01:43.066 --> 00:01:51.629
00:01:51.629 --> 00:02:01.563
00:02:01.563 --> 00:02:16.889
00:02:16.889 --> 00:02:20.710
00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:25.650
00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:46.768
00:02:46.768 --> 00:02:52.302
00:02:52.302 --> 00:02:54.150
00:02:54.150 --> 00:03:00.068
00:03:00.068 --> 00:03:20.741
00:03:20.741 --> 00:03:25.127
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:32.211
00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:47.977
00:03:48.498 --> 00:03:51.007
00:03:51.007 --> 00:03:54.810
00:03:54.810 --> 00:04:06.671
00:04:06.671 --> 00:04:09.775
00:04:09.775 --> 00:04:11.604
00:04:11.604 --> 00:04:19.348
00:04:19.348 --> 00:04:33.870
00:04:33.870 --> 00:04:35.927
00:04:35.927 --> 00:04:44.444
00:04:46.202 --> 00:04:47.766
00:04:47.766 --> 00:04:50.086
00:04:50.086 --> 00:04:53.810
00:04:53.810 --> 00:04:58.112
00:04:58.112 --> 00:05:05.283
00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:10.862
00:05:10.862 --> 00:05:19.552
00:05:19.552 --> 00:05:33.903
00:05:33.903 --> 00:05:35.788
00:05:35.788 --> 00:05:38.245
00:05:38.245 --> 00:05:48.646
00:05:48.646 --> 00:05:55.430
00:05:55.430 --> 00:05:56.973
00:05:56.973 --> 00:06:04.213
00:06:04.213 --> 00:06:07.129
00:06:07.129 --> 00:06:09.504
00:06:09.504 --> 00:06:20.105
00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:37.132
00:06:37.612 --> 00:06:40.918
00:06:40.918 --> 00:06:42.000
00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:49.355
00:06:49.355 --> 00:07:10.288
00:07:10.288 --> 00:07:12.610
00:07:12.610 --> 00:07:20.115
00:07:20.115 --> 00:07:26.922
00:07:26.922 --> 00:07:30.334
00:07:32.747 --> 00:07:35.913
00:07:35.913 --> 00:07:40.519
00:07:40.519 --> 00:08:00.399
00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:01.040
00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:01.680
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.586
00:08:03.586 --> 00:08:05.048
00:08:05.048 --> 00:08:11.156
00:08:11.156 --> 00:08:26.319
00:08:26.678 --> 00:08:34.552
00:08:34.552 --> 00:08:44.404
00:08:44.404 --> 00:08:46.889
00:08:46.889 --> 00:08:48.610
00:08:48.610 --> 00:08:59.368
00:08:59.368 --> 00:09:01.513
00:09:02.033 --> 00:09:03.537
00:09:03.537 --> 00:09:15.096
00:09:15.096 --> 00:09:21.003
00:09:21.003 --> 00:09:22.205
00:09:22.205 --> 00:09:27.634
00:09:27.634 --> 00:09:39.111
00:09:39.111 --> 00:09:43.057
00:09:43.057 --> 00:09:49.004
00:09:49.004 --> 00:09:53.655
00:09:53.917 --> 00:09:57.365
00:09:57.365 --> 00:10:08.722
00:10:08.722 --> 00:10:35.224
00:10:35.224 --> 00:10:35.565
00:10:37.706 --> 00:10:43.395
00:10:43.395 --> 00:11:14.105
00:11:14.105 --> 00:11:28.908
00:11:28.908 --> 00:11:40.125
00:11:40.125 --> 00:11:45.445
00:11:46.326 --> 00:12:37.235
00:12:38.096 --> 00:12:42.445
00:12:42.445 --> 00:12:46.934
00:12:46.934 --> 00:12:51.615
00:12:51.615 --> 00:12:53.644
00:12:53.644 --> 00:13:06.644
00:13:06.644 --> 00:13:17.644
00:13:23.135 --> 00:13:25.780
00:13:25.780 --> 00:13:36.044
00:13:36.044 --> 00:13:52.190
00:13:52.190 --> 00:14:01.302
00:14:01.302 --> 00:14:10.445
00:14:10.445 --> 00:14:29.657
00:14:29.657 --> 00:14:38.004
00:14:38.004 --> 00:14:43.162
00:14:43.162 --> 00:14:48.455
00:14:48.575 --> 00:14:50.582
00:14:50.582 --> 00:14:58.802
00:14:58.802 --> 00:15:01.934
00:15:01.934 --> 00:15:15.292
00:15:15.292 --> 00:15:17.735
00:15:17.735 --> 00:15:31.534
00:15:31.534 --> 00:15:36.774
00:15:37.155 --> 00:15:38.541
00:15:38.541 --> 00:15:44.460
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:47.066
00:15:47.066 --> 00:15:57.794
00:15:57.794 --> 00:16:03.615
00:16:03.615 --> 00:16:09.914
00:16:09.914 --> 00:16:27.855
00:16:29.599 --> 00:16:30.260
00:16:30.260 --> 00:16:41.239
00:16:41.239 --> 00:16:55.972
00:16:55.972 --> 00:17:04.368
00:17:04.368 --> 00:17:12.528
00:17:12.528 --> 00:17:13.880
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:25.060
00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:30.936
00:17:31.157 --> 00:17:36.619
00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:39.184
00:17:39.184 --> 00:17:44.305
00:17:44.305 --> 00:17:54.009
00:17:54.009 --> 00:17:55.535
00:17:55.535 --> 00:17:59.376
00:17:59.376 --> 00:18:02.467
00:18:02.467 --> 00:18:15.892
00:18:15.892 --> 00:18:21.445
00:18:21.445 --> 00:18:22.989
00:18:24.234 --> 00:18:28.227
00:18:28.227 --> 00:18:44.513
00:18:44.513 --> 00:18:52.108
00:18:53.815 --> 00:18:56.521
00:18:56.521 --> 00:19:19.067
00:19:19.067 --> 00:19:20.878
00:19:20.878 --> 00:19:27.023
00:19:27.023 --> 00:19:45.067
00:19:45.067 --> 00:20:02.657
00:20:02.657 --> 00:20:04.186
00:20:04.186 --> 00:20:05.654
00:20:05.654 --> 00:20:21.545
00:20:21.545 --> 00:20:28.801
00:20:28.801 --> 00:20:45.768
00:20:45.768 --> 00:20:55.275
00:20:55.275 --> 00:20:57.275
00:20:57.275 --> 00:21:02.875
00:21:03.277 --> 00:21:06.028
00:21:06.028 --> 00:21:07.875
00:21:07.875 --> 00:21:09.358
00:21:09.358 --> 00:21:18.240
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:25.967
00:21:25.967 --> 00:21:33.207
00:21:33.207 --> 00:21:35.161
00:21:35.161 --> 00:21:36.064
00:21:36.598 --> 00:21:38.755
00:21:38.855 --> 00:21:49.009
00:21:49.592 --> 00:22:15.775
00:22:15.775 --> 00:22:20.726
00:22:20.726 --> 00:22:42.396
00:22:42.396 --> 00:22:47.557
00:22:48.710 --> 00:23:16.436
00:23:16.436 --> 00:23:30.338
00:23:30.630 --> 00:23:32.617
00:23:32.617 --> 00:23:49.468
00:23:49.468 --> 00:24:00.409
00:24:00.409 --> 00:24:00.630
00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:16.630
00:24:16.630 --> 00:24:18.518
00:24:18.830 --> 00:24:24.376
00:24:24.376 --> 00:24:30.099
00:24:30.099 --> 00:24:35.181
00:24:35.181 --> 00:24:39.630
00:24:39.630 --> 00:24:42.239
00:24:42.239 --> 00:24:47.301
00:24:48.271 --> 00:24:51.279
00:24:51.279 --> 00:25:03.241
00:25:03.241 --> 00:25:07.240
00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:09.958
00:25:09.958 --> 00:25:12.998
00:25:12.998 --> 00:25:15.396
00:25:15.396 --> 00:25:16.933
00:25:16.933 --> 00:25:18.278
00:25:18.278 --> 00:25:20.175
00:25:20.175 --> 00:25:21.903
00:25:21.903 --> 00:25:22.630
00:25:22.630 --> 00:25:24.609
00:25:24.609 --> 00:25:29.582
00:25:29.582 --> 00:25:37.516
00:25:37.556 --> 00:25:40.405
00:25:40.405 --> 00:25:41.630
00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:50.526
00:25:50.526 --> 00:25:51.630
00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.609
00:25:55.609 --> 00:26:01.630
00:26:01.630 --> 00:26:17.589
00:26:17.589 --> 00:26:23.569
00:26:24.111 --> 00:26:53.523
00:26:53.523 --> 00:26:54.265
00:26:54.265 --> 00:27:06.609
00:27:06.609 --> 00:27:08.416
00:27:08.416 --> 00:27:11.630
00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:13.630
00:27:13.630 --> 00:27:19.080
00:27:19.080 --> 00:27:20.363
00:27:20.363 --> 00:27:23.589
00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:30.630
00:27:31.371 --> 00:27:38.443
00:27:38.443 --> 00:27:51.429
00:27:51.429 --> 00:27:57.363
00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:07.125
00:28:07.125 --> 00:28:19.325
00:28:19.325 --> 00:28:23.540
00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:26.146
00:28:26.146 --> 00:28:30.589
00:28:30.589 --> 00:28:35.609
00:28:35.911 --> 00:28:50.609
00:28:50.609 --> 00:29:09.607
00:29:09.607 --> 00:29:20.617
00:29:20.617 --> 00:29:30.589